Curse

King Beamer · Apr 03, 2010, 09:44 PM // 21:44

okay, so im looking to start rolling through pve on my ritualist. ive done some looking around on pvx, and im not necessarily good with build work, but the team builds on pvx look rather weak on the healing end of the spectrum. im going to be playing a ritualist, but i dont really care if im gonna be a spirit spammer or healer. i couldnt care less. im just looking for a build for me and 3 heroes that would easily roll through pve in nm and hm. any input is greatly appreciated.

vamp08 · Apr 03, 2010, 10:48 PM // 22:48

General PvE rit that I ran through every campaign, excpet for the destroyer dawrf missions in EotN (switched to defensive spirits then)

And the other heros should be discord necros. If you dont have any or all of the hero necs, any heros will work. Spirit Spam is so FTW in pve that you shouldnt have to worry.

Popeye1906 · Apr 03, 2010, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Go SoS and run a discord hero team. if you dont have 3 necros, go with 1 jagged bones bomber, 1 ele order and 1 war/derv depending on what you are killing. Earthshaker warrior or conditions derv works good.

ac1inferno · Apr 04, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discordway

Dusk_ · Apr 04, 2010, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Discordway and Spirit Spamming always seemed so counterintuitive to me. Discord is weak DPS, but very high single-target spiking. SSing is...well, the exact opposite (unless there's only one enemy left).

Necromas · Apr 04, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Discordway and Spirit Spamming always seemed so counterintuitive to me. Discord is weak DPS, but very high single-target spiking. SSing is...well, the exact opposite (unless there's only one enemy left).

The spirits do so much DPS though, and so consistently, that it makes up for the inability to force them to hit a specific target. Even with large mobs too they'll generally focus primarily on two targets anyways so it's not gonna spread your damage out too much just make sure you hit as many targets as possible with painful bond.

Dusk_ · Apr 04, 2010, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

The spirits do so much DPS though, and so consistently, that it makes up for the inability to force them to hit a specific target. Even with large mobs too they'll generally focus primarily on two targets anyways so it's not gonna spread your damage out too much just make sure you hit as many targets as possible with painful bond.

That only explains why Spirit Spamming is good, not why Discord goes well with it.

upier · Apr 04, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Xenomortis · Apr 04, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

So if you are looking for a generic AI team - I would definitely look into including different ways of dealing damage.

For an intellectual exercise I once thought about how I would construct an 8-man team build in Guild Wars that could counter (or at least reasonably and effectively deal with) everything presented to it in PvE (excluding some of the really retarded monster skills). Even with 8 humans that's actually pretty difficult.
I concluded it was impossible to make an all AI (no monster skills) 8 man team achieve the same thing (not necessarily because of limitations in skills available but because of how they use (or don't use) them).

Discord is pretty universal, not much can fully counter it (this is true for caster damage in general). It's big two weaknesses are when you have very few corpses and when faced with a fair amount of hex removal. Both situations can be dealt with but it slows you down and it's often a little bit more messy.

My point is that any build you make will need to be tweaked from time to time for individual areas - Build Wars. Sometimes you'll need to bite the bullet and face that what you normally when is wholly inadequate for the area you're facing.

Spirits are in a similar situation to Discord, but with crucial difference. The counters to spirits directly are really rare (Spiritual Pain is probably the most scary and most common and even that can be dealt with) and after that all you need to watch out for is AoE chewing through your spirits. In this regard spirits are more universal than Discord. Even blocking is a small consideration - Rigor Mortis is easy enough to bring along with a small spec (very few threatening characters block with enough regularity to stay alive vs strong spirits) and some enchantment removal wouldn't go amiss.
(The fact spirits are so universal, coupled with the fact that they're damn strong anyway, is what makes them overpowered.)

With that in mind, here's what I would consider.

Human - Rit - SoS Rit or Offensive Comm Rit.
Hero 1 - Rit - Offensive Comm Rit or SoS Rit (whichever wasn't filled)
Hero 2 - Rit - Defensive Comm Rit

Hero 3 - Mes / Nec or Monk - Little bit more defense. If enchantments are an issue then Air of Disenchantment is nice. Interrupts are always nice from the AI. Against enemies like Raptors, Mirror of Disenchantment on micro means they won't live for long.
If you don't need that disruption then simply bring a healer or something.

upier · Apr 04, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Daesu · Apr 04, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My concern is that you should pretty much be able to throw all the offensive spirits on one bar.
You have your SoS, Bloodsong, Vampirism, Shadowsong, Anguish, Pain, Painful Bond and Summon Spirits.
Pretty much all you are left with is Disenchantment, Dissonance, Gaze Of Fury and Wanderlust. Wanderlust won't be an option because you either want stuff like Soul Twisting, Ritual Lord or Signet of Ghostly Might.
If you unload a massive number of spirits on your AI, they are much more prone to being wiped or useless due to the heroes' inability to take terrain into account. And if you grab them, you can pretty much take all spirits with you, leaving the AI with next to 0 spirits to choose from.
And if you then run weapon spells, it's insanely hard to look past Great Dwarf Weapon and that means you should limit on other weapon spells so that GDW does not get overwritten.
And then the only thing you have left is Ancestors' Rage.

So, I'd kinda go with one offensive and one defensive (you can also throw additional offensive stuff on this guy) spirit spammer instead of 3 (that's INCLUDING the player), because I just don't see enough skills that would be worth taking for 3 spirit spammers.

I think you can go with 2 offensive spirit spammers if you include energy management skills (e.g. spirit siphon or signet of creation) and res.

Taking your example, SoGM, Disenchantment, Dissonance, Gaze Of Fury, res, SoC are already 6 skills. Since the SoS rit is channeling, she can bring spirit siphon also and move one or two communing spirits down to the SoGM rit. The problem with offensive communing spirits is that they have high energy cost and they dont last as long as channeling spirits in general so you should bring energy management. Look at Dissonance for example or even shadowsong. Since the SoGM rit is communing based, she can also bring AoU to help her rather expensive spirits last their full duration.

The defensive communing rit can also be a restoration rit, especially if the last hero is a minion bomber. Otherwise, defensive communing spirits would protect the minions.

upier · Apr 04, 2010, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Xenomortis · Apr 04, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Summon spirits and a high energy set will allow the human Channeling player to manage that bar without e-management skills.

I run SoS without energy management camping on a shield and spear set.

I'd have the human run the Offensive communing stuff and take a bit of energy management and give the hero SoS + Energy management. You can take a load of offensive stuff that way and the difficult role is given to the human.
You're looking at Pain, Shadowsong, Anguish, Disenchantment/Dissonance and Vampirism (think that's it, can't remember off the top of my head).
SoS, Bloodsong on the hero.
Painful bond somewhere.

Daesu · Apr 04, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Summon spirits and a high energy set will allow the human Channeling player to manage that bar without e-management skills.
The problem with Communing spirits is that not only are they insanely expensive, they also last a short time AND have a pretty long recharge. Which means positioning is going to much more crucial for this guy and that means either a human player should take this role or you need to micro it. If on the other hand I'd leave this role to the AI - then I would absolutely look into using ST or RL as their elite. But then you lose a serious amount of damage from SoGM.
As I said - I would much rather leave out Dissonance, Disenchantment and Gaze Of Fury than build around them. They just don't bring enough to the table to make it worth it.

Actually, other than Dissonance, their recharge is not that bad provided that they last close to their full duration so I would still consider SoGM, bring AoU, and an energy management.

As for the SoS, I forgot to mention other useful skills that you can bring along like AR, Splinter or GDW. Depending on what you bring, you may or may not need spirit siphon.

upier · Apr 04, 2010, 04:07 PM // 16:07

ac1inferno · Apr 04, 2010, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Why go Spirit Spammer at all? The idea is that you're a caster so you can run the AP Caller bar for Discordway, not be a Spirit Spammer and use Discordway.

upier · Apr 04, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

ac1inferno · Apr 04, 2010, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Really? I had always thought that Discordway was the best hero team. Perhaps I need to relook this..

Xenomortis · Apr 04, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Really? I had always thought that Discordway was the best hero team. Perhaps I need to relook this..

Yes, yes you do.

Necromas · Apr 04, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Really? I had always thought that Discordway was the best hero team. Perhaps I need to relook this..

The great thing about discordway is that it's easy, but a lot of things can outclass it with the right strategy and synergy.

The same goes for spirit spam, it's solid and easy dps, but except for soloing it's really not too amazing.